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 Post subject: Classical Guitar Study
PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:24 am 
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Our friend Matt, has requested a special place for Classical Guitar, since it was such a big part of Randy's life, and would have continued to be. Matt will be answering questions, giving tips, and what not. He will also be recording some pieces along with sheet music and possibly tabs, so anyone who is interested can give it a try. If anyone else has things to add, please feel free to share.

Here is an important link to get this started. It has sheet music to classical pieces that have copyrights that have expired, so they are public domain I believe.

http://www.delcamp.net/


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:38 pm 

Thanks for the introduction Cable
Guy!


This is an exciting new facet to RRTK that I hope will be able to help people who may be interested to discover some of the exciting pieces in the Classical Guitar repertoire.

Right Hand Studies

Warm Up Exercises for the Right Hand (using fingers P,I,M,A: thumb, first second and third finger)

E minor warm up: P,I,P,I,P,I,M,A,M,A,I,M,,P,I,P,I
http://media.putfile.com/Example-One

E major warm up: P,I,M,A,M,I etc
http://media.putfile.com/Example-Two


Left Hand Studies


Warm Up Exercises for the Left Hand (using fingers 1,2,3 and 4)

Chormatic exercise: frets: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 then 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 etc )use fingers I and M through out
http://media.putfile.com/Example-Three

Left hand jumbled chromatic exrecise: Frets: 1,3,2,4 on all 6 strings then when string 1 is reached move onto the next string.
http://media.putfile.com/Example-Four


Tone

An example of a horizontal right hand position. Note how brittle the tone is!
http://media.putfile.com/Example-Five

An example of a diagonal right position achieving a warmer tone and superior flexability.
http://media.putfile.com/Example-Six


Repertoire

Francesco Tarrega (1852-1909)

Tableture can be found on the link below
http://www.delcamp.net/pdf/tablature/cl ... ature.html

Below are the three Tarrega pieces on the Delcamp link posted by Cable Guy!

Adelita
http://media.putfile.com/Adelita


Endecha
http://media.putfile.com/Tarrega


Lagrima
http://media.putfile.com/Lagrima

J.S Bach (1685-1750)

http://media.putfile.com/Prelude-in-D-minor-JS-Bach
This piece is quite deceptive. There are some tricky stretches and it is an excellent right hand study

These are great piece to begin with if you are already a reasonable standard on the electric guitar and want to try something Classical.

Buying a Guitar

http://www.strunal.com/new/index.php?cat=products&id=5

I choose one for a pupils dad for his birthday. The quality really surprised me. The sound was nicely blanced and loud and for only £120.00.
If anyone has around $200 and is thinking of getting a Classical you can't go wrong for the money with these.



Check this link out. This this link of Jie Li playing Paganini's Caprice 24.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98y0Q7nLGWk

The ball is rolling :!:


Last edited by Matt on Tue May 01, 2007 7:02 am, edited 6 times in total.

  
 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:31 pm 
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Great idea. Though I think Lagrima is easier to get started with than Adelita which is a song I really should finish learning =)

I hope more will post songs that gets me motivated to learn more classical pieces.

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:54 pm 

Don't worry as I write I am uploading Lagrima and another Tarrega piece and a series of warm ups...more to follow!! :D


  
 
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:11 pm 
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Last edited by Alex on Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:17 pm 

Hi

That's the Tablature Tarrega pieces up. If anyone would like anything...i.e slower versions or fingering of specific sections etc please don't hesitate to contact or even e mail.

I am going to record the entire tab site over the coming weeks. The pieces range from Beginner to Immediate/Advanced.

Then we'll see how it goes.

Don't be shy...give it a try :D

Matt


  
 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:29 am 
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Great thread Matt, thanks for taking the time to submit these lessons and tips.
I'd like to see your tips on recording at some point too. What mic you use, distances and placings etc.
Lovely playing as usuall:-) 8)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:30 am 

Des wrote:
Great thread Matt, thanks for taking the time to submit these lessons and tips.
I'd like to see your tips on recording at some point too. What mic you use, distances and placings etc.
Lovely playing as usuall:-) 8)


Hi Des

The microphone is a M-Audio Nova Codensor microphone and was about £100. I angle it at the bottom og the guitar near the bridge about 6 inches away. The mixing desk has 4 inputs and is a Beringher UB842 eurorack. That was under £100. As in my rock solos I use Logic Express with a mini mac (Apple)

The best thing to do if your recording and want a good sound is have nice new strings and really nicely buffered nails.

I hope that helps :D

Matt


  
 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:27 am 
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Last edited by Alex on Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:42 am 

Hi Alex

I don't keep them crazily long. I keep the thumb Index and middle right angled so they are like mini plectrums and the next one curved in the middle.

I am very lucky that they have always been rock hard but I have heard of people doing all sorts of things to strengthen them like putting vegetable oil, hair gel jelly etc to keep them in good shape.

I guess what ever works for you.

I am always getting Suzie to go to chemists and buy 4 way nail buffers so I can keep them smooth though. When they are smooth I get also a smooth tone and vice versa!

Also I do everything (well most things:D) with both hands so my right hand is protected. With lifting I have never had a problem. I suppose at the end of the day manual work gets in the way of nails :(

Cheers Matt :D


  
 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:59 pm 
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Matt wrote:
Don't worry as I write I am uploading Lagrima and another Tarrega piece and a series of warm ups...more to follow!! :D


Great! *doing a Homer-woohoo*


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:19 pm 
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I'm def. glad to see other people interested in classical guitar, but classical guitar tablature is sacrilege.... No lie. When I first auditioned for the school of music, I was slapped on the wrists and sent home. The piece I had played was Minuet by Johann Sabastian Bach, which is not an easy piece to play, but since it had standard classical notation and the forbidden tablature I did not pass. I was put on academic probation until I could get up to speed on true classical guitar playing. I guess the morale of the story is learning classical guitar off of tablature is half ass-ing it. I'm not trying to be an asshole but yeah down with tab. I've been taking guitar from a Woman with her doctorate in classical guitar studies and in my opinion classical guitar is a dying art. Having an instructor is such an important part of the learning process, seeing as how everything is regulated from the way you sit to the location of both hands etc... it's hard to get good habits and kick the bad. But anyway I'm def. glad Matt is doing this, he seems like a good guy, always something nice to say. So best of luck everyone!

My five cents.....

An important aspect of classical guitar playing is being able to alternate I M I and M I M along with tremolo picking which is PIMA

Care of your nails is also very important. The thumb nail must be, in general about 1/3 of an inch above the flesh of your thumb, but this is just average it's different per each person. Also the nails on your index (I) and middle finger (M) must be well maintained and shaped properly, meaning the left side should be short, ramping up to the right side which should be comparably long. The ring finger (A) should have a nail of comparable length yet uniform across the whole surface. You should never cut the nail, but file it down, when you cut your nails you crimp the edge and this leads to splitting and the like. A good seven sided file ( 2$ at target) does wonders!




Another topic of importance is knowing the difference tonally and technically between free stroke and rest stroke.

Free stroke is having your hand in standard classical position only striking strings with your fingers and thumb never touching any other strings.

Free stroke is used for...
-Arpeggios
-Chords
-Scale passages in which rest stroke is neither practical or desirable
-parts that do not require special emphasis

Rest stroke is the act of sounding a string towards yourself and catching your finger on the adjacent string (i.e. if you plucked open e your fingers both I and M would rest on open b)

Rest Stroke is used for....
-Any part requiring special emphasis such as the melody (usually found in treble or bass part)
-Scales or scale passages

As far as those horizontal and diagonal right hand position... I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you talking about changing the tonal characteristics by striking the string differently either with nail or flesh or in fact a different place on the guitar?

Also question for Matt, I've heard John Williams speak about how he holds onto the string with his nails to get the full tonal capacity out of each strike, yet I have no idea how he does this.... any idea? :D

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:44 pm 
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Yeah, I agree with you about tabs, it's extremely important to use sheet music when playing classical and an instructor does wonders

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:55 pm 

Nifareus wrote:
. I guess the morale of the story is learning classical guitar off of tablature is half ass-ing it. I'm not trying to be an asshole but yeah down with tab. :D


In an ideal world I agree but the thread really is for people who may have little or no experience with reading music and as a starting point tab is the obvious choice.

Of course a good instructor is the ideal but I believe like you that the Classical Guitar sadly is in decline. If music notational examples were used instead of tab then it may be some people on the board who otherwise can have a stab at the examples above sadly just click off.

For the record on a personal level I now find it easier to read music than tab and it is so much more liberating and cerainly the way forward. But tab isn't all bad many early composers such as Dowland etc wrote their pieces in tablature.

Informative reststroke and free stroke explanantions...I don't know much about John Williams style or technique.

Cheers Matt


  
 
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:29 pm 
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Matt did you go to school to study classical guitar performance or are you self taught? Just wondering

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:41 pm 

Yep

As an undergraduate I studied at the Guildhall School Of Music and Drama under David Miller, and as Post Graduate I studied at Surrey University under Dr S.Goss .


  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:05 pm 

Hi

I have just added a Prelude in D minor by J.S Bach (1685-1750)

Please see original post with link to audio and tab. I hope to have the entire tab up by March/April.

Please don't be shy in coming forward if there is anything I can help with. You are welcome to e mail and/or private message. I am very grateful to RRTK for this!

Cheers

Matt


  
 
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:59 am 
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I check out that website with sheet music but i couldnt find any. Got any good sheet music peices that are verynice sounding? Around a Grade 2 level.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:44 am 

Hi RR Tribute

Go to my first post and look under tablature. You'll find a link to the whole tablature section. I will find some early grade pieces asap and post clips etc soon.

Hang on in there:D

Matt


  
 
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:57 pm 
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..still practicin Adelita and Lagrima =) Getting a bit bored of them though.. Need to get working on something new. Should click those other links also =)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:39 pm 
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Have you got any good exercises for tremolo picking?? and any good peices or studies i could work it on?

Ive got some really good right hand excercises ill try and get a picture of them and upload em'.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:53 pm 

RRtribute wrote:
Have you got any good exercises for tremolo picking?? and any good peices or studies i could work it on?


It may sound like an overly obvious way to practice the Classical guitar tremelo picking technique, but try just picking every string A,M,I,M and also I,M,A,M. Start by using a chord to avoid the monotony of the open strings, and use a metronome to increase the speed.

There are of course tremelo pieces, but they are quite hard, and it would be better doing this first.

Cheers

Matt


  
 
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:07 am 
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Matt wrote:
but try just picking every string A,M,I,M and also I,M,A,M.


What does that mean? Certain fingers? Index? Middle? What would A be?


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:15 am 
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Nifareus wrote:

Also question for Matt, I've heard John Williams speak about how he holds onto the string with his nails to get the full tonal capacity out of each strike, yet I have no idea how he does this.... any idea? :D

I’m not matt but I too studied classical guitar with good teachers and I remember something from one of my early lessons that is probably what Williams was speaking about.
First of all to be able to do any of this and have benefits from it you must practice exaggerated technique. At first exaggerate and don't stop down the road you will know when you no longer need to exaggerate, you will just know.
Right hand technique involves a graph that I cannot display here without a lot of effort so I don’t know if this will even help without showing someone how to do it.


The strokes i,m,a must come from the knuckle joint only. (pulling the fingers in toward the palm.)
The first joint from the tips of your fingers must be limp! so that it bends inward toward the palm.
The second joint stays firm but relaxed at about an angle of 90 to 120 degrees or so. All hands are a little different.

So the exercise starts with the index finger griping the e string between the finger tip and the nail. The finger should be relaxed first knuckles limp and bent backwards. And secure with a good hold of the string.

Now moving only the 3rd knuckle(the ones you would use to punch with)
Pluck the e string and catch the b string and come to a rest with the string firmly caught between the nail and finger tip.

This is hard at first but will transform your playing by leaps and bounds.
This is the dynamic way to transfer energy into the strings. Your fingers will be elastic and prop lactic. The note will only strike when your plucking force reaches equilibrium with the string tension causing the nail to slip and catch the next string.

Do this one finger at a time and shake out the hands after each exercise

Could this be what williams was talking about. His right hand picking is what I would consider to be perfect.

Kev


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:05 am 

squrrls wrote:
Nifareus wrote:

Also question for Matt, I've heard John Williams speak about how he holds onto the string with his nails to get the full tonal capacity out of each strike, yet I have no idea how he does this.... any idea? :D

I’m not matt but I too studied classical guitar with good teachers and I remember something from one of my early lessons that is probably what Williams was speaking about.
First of all to be able to do any of this and have benefits from it you must practice exaggerated technique. At first exaggerate and don't stop down the road you will know when you no longer need to exaggerate, you will just know.
Right hand technique involves a graph that I cannot display here without a lot of effort so I don’t know if this will even help without showing someone how to do it.

The strokes i,m,a must come from the knuckle joint only. (pulling the fingers in toward the palm.)
The first joint from the tips of your fingers must be limp! so that it bends inward toward the palm.
The second joint stays firm but relaxed at about an angle of 90 to 120 degrees or so. All hands are a little different.

So the exercise starts with the index finger griping the e string between the finger tip and the nail. The finger should be relaxed first knuckles limp and bent backwards. And secure with a good hold of the string.

Now moving only the 3rd knuckle(the ones you would use to punch with)
Pluck the e string and catch the b string and come to a rest with the string firmly caught between the nail and finger tip.

This is hard at first but will transform your playing by leaps and bounds.
This is the dynamic way to transfer energy into the strings. Your fingers will be elastic and prop lactic. The note will only strike when your plucking force reaches equilibrium with the string tension causing the nail to slip and catch the next string.

Do this one finger at a time and shake out the hands after each exercise

Could this be what williams was talking about. His right hand picking is what I would consider to be perfect.

Kev



Is there anyway to hack into rrtk and put my avatar picture next to that answer! LOL...very well said. I have to confess I am not a fan of John Williams and know next to nothing about him.

Hi Progg

A is the next one in line (the one next to the little finger) you never officially use the little finger, although occassionally it does come in handy on some more unorthadox pieces.


  
 
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:50 pm 
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Ring finger = Auxiliary.
I only know that because that’s the finger I cut off last September.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:05 pm 

squrrls wrote:
Ring finger = Auxiliary.
I only know that because that’s the finger I cut off last September.


God man!! Sorry to hear that. :(


  
 
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:25 pm 
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It sounds worse than it was. I'll just say Jointer Table power on. All I felt was a quick tug at my arm. Thank God for them built in reflexs if it werent for them Id have lost the 2 or more whole fingers. Lucky for me it only took off the finger tips up about midpoint of the nail.

kinda like Toni Iommi.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:05 am 
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This is soooo nice !!!!!!!

I used to be into classical guitar all through the 80's and got to be ok..

I never had an instructor except for this tape/book that I ordered through hit parader or some rag like that

I think it was the "Ben Bolt" study guide or something like that

actually I take that back I did kind of have a few lessons from a guy that was studying and he showed me a few of the right hand studys (can't think of the name of them... like 56 examples/studies by some dude back in the 1600's or something) the ones where you alternate between Cmaj and Gm7th till you are blue in the face

My main problem was always the fact that my thumb is totaly double jointed and when I don't have my index underneath it (like when you are holding a pick) it has a tendency to bend backwards

and not having a "quality" classical guitar put a damper on things

when your main axe is LP custom it is real hard to switch to a pile with lousy action....

anyway enough of that

maybe this will re-motivate me

Thanks Matt very much and thank you RRdotTK

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:36 pm 

Johnny Slave wrote:

the ones where you alternate between Cmaj and Gm7th till you are blue in the face



*LOL*LOL* I really know the feeling!


  
 
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